National President of the Christ Apostolic Church (CAC) worldwide, Pastor Samuel Oladele, speaks about the church, state of the nation, and other issues, during a media chat organised by the Publicity Department in conjunction with Journalists For Christ (JFC). SEYI SOKOYA brings excerpts:
The nation recently marked its 64th independence. What is your advice to the government at the federal and state levels, on how to make Nigeria better?
Did we get it right when we became independent 64 years ago? Yes. Regarding our political differences, we had leaders like Chief Awolowo, Baba Azikiwe, and Tafawa Balewa Visionaries some other things came up, along the line, and have brought us to where we are today. Yes, people are not smiling. We have to remind those people and the government that their number one responsibility is to put smiles on the faces of the people.
We pray so much in this country. In saner climes, people do not do as much as we do here, but they take good care of their citizens. Even if you curse, if you spew curses, God will in turn, turn it into a blessing in those countries because what would be your complaint? King Charles today lives in Buckingham Palace.
If it is just a small room you have to yourself, comfortably, if I have something like this and I am comfortable, I mean, I enjoy the comfort of my flat, why should I be cursing the king? Even if I cursed the king, the Lord will turn it into a blessing for the king.
Let all our leaders be reminded of the very reason they are in positions of power. It is a kind of trust and they must not fail. Let them think above their own selfish and mundane interests. Let them think of the interests of the people. That is our message to them. We just pray that the Lord will open their minds and hearts to do the right thing.
Nigerians have witnessed untold hardship in recent times. What is the position of the church so far?
We cannot operate talk or preach outside the Bible. The number one mission of the church is to pray for those who are in a position of authority. When Paul was writing that epistle, it was in a dark, cold dungeon in Rome, yet he said we should pray for those in authority/government. It was Nero Caesar who imprisoned him. Nero was not a good ruler, and yet Paul said we should pray for the leaders, not only the good ones, that we would have peace, tranquility, worship the Lord, and so forth. Then we need to preach righteousness and holiness, even as our church members are in government. The senators go to church. Members of the House of Representatives go to church. Lawyers, judges, professionals, doctors, captains of industry, and so forth, go to church. If they can just bring their Christian virtue, if they have one, to bear upon society, the society will not be what it is today. So, it is not just about religiosity, let us spread the word of righteousness; peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. The number one message is repentance and also righteousness.
When Jesus was here physically, he said, ‘repent’ and John preached it. Let us preach righteousness. Then, people will go from the church; they will go to society and be the salt and the light, which Christ said we should be.
We still have a lot to do to make sure that there is righteousness. We have to preach in the church. If we preach righteousness, and people are righteous, it will affect society positively.
As a leader of the church, how have you been able to handle those who are misusing the identity of the church?
You know what? The Christ Apostolic Church is such a liberal, generous church. When this church came into being, our fathers were very spiritual. They would not want to take anybody to court. They did not want to discourage you from whatever you want.
If you say that it is the Lord that has laid it upon your heart, there are things people do for or against the Christ Apostolic Church that they dare not do with any other church. But we leave them to their conscience. If you use our name, our logo is on your billboard or signboard, you go to Prayer Mountain in the name of CAC, and you do your own thing, well, I do not know, but maybe in the future, that kind of thing will happen. But we leave you to God’s judgment. We will not take you to court. But maybe tomorrow, when some other people come into the Christian leadership, they may decide to do that. You cannot do that to The Apostolic Church, Baptist, Anglican, Deeper Life, etc. But because of our liberality, because of our large-heartedness, people tend to abuse and take advantage of our liberal and generous disposition. We leave them to God’s judgment.
What drastic steps is CAC taking to end the long division in the church? Any update on the reconciliation moves?
This has been a question that keeps occurring every year. I hope that one day this question will no longer be asked. This is because the Lord Himself will unite the church. We are doing all that is humanly possible and we need the power of the Holy Spirit to bring everything to fruition. I can assure you that we are not relenting in our efforts to make sure that the church becomes one indivisible entity. Recently, we were together, that is leadership, the leaders on both sides of the divide. We met to pray and I think that it is good news. Both leaders on both sides are praying together, this is because everybody is tired of this crisis, which has lasted for 34 years. It was at a conference like this, way back in September 1990, at CAC Ilesha that the crisis broke and so we are saying enough is enough.
We urge everyone to keep praying for us all. So, in our lifetime, possibly during our tenure, the crisis will become a thing of the past. Hope is not lost and that is why we pray together. We are holding meetings and that is why, if you listen to my address, I said nobody should make any inflammatory comment either here or there and that is our agreement. We are praying that very soon, the good news will spread all over that CAC has become one like it was in the days of our fathers.
The church recently held its pastors’ conference. What brought about the theme, “The Gift of the Holy Spirit to the body of Christ”?
When our Lord Jesus Christ was here physically, about 2,000 years ago, before he left, he told his disciples to tarry in Jerusalem, and that they should never endeavour to embark on any evangelistic mission until they have been endowed with power from the Most High. For 10 consecutive days, they gathered themselves in the upper room in the city of Jerusalem, and suddenly, as they were praying, the Holy Spirit descended heavily upon them, and they were all baptised in the Holy Ghost. Of the 120 that were there in the upper room, only 12 of them were apostles. Probably, the rest of them, 108 were simply church members. But when the Holy Spirit came on that day, they all got baptised in the Spirit.
That is to tell you something about the true democracy of the church; the Holy Spirit is not a denomination. He is not a church. The Holy Spirit is the very power behind the church. The reason for the theme for the pastors’ conference, and all our conferences in CAC this year, is to remind us of this rich heritage of ours and also make us go back to the basics because it will be a kind of self-delusion for anyone to believe that he can carry on working for the Lord without the power of the Holy Spirit.
Even if you have to sweep the church, you have to sing or preach or teach or be an usher, whatever sphere of the ministry to which you have been called, you need the power of the Holy Spirit. You know, when we go back to the Holy Spirit, sin will be detected. Nobody dared to join the church then because they feared the consequence of being hypocritical. So, the church cannot function effectively without the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit.
The popular belief is that CAC is an old people’s church. Is this notion still the same? What have you done differently to make youths vibrant in the church in your tenure?
Wherever you find the youths, there is vitality. That tells it all. We thank God for the old ones. The Psalmist says I was young and now I am old. There are two stages in life- young and old. We are not disparaging any age group, but we thank God that we have this report that CAC is full of young ones. It has rubbished the general belief in some quarters that our youths are running away. We cannot keep everybody in the same church, but it gives us hope. There is hope for the church’s future by the grace of God.
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