Ex-Lagos Commissioner of Police, Mr. Fatai Owoseni, is the Special Adviser to Governor Seyi Makinde of Oyo State on Security Matters. In this interview by LASISI OLAGUNJU and SAM NWAOKO, speaks on the status of things with regards to investigations on the deadly blast in Bodija, Ibadan and related matters.
Nigerians will like to know what the current situation is with regards to the Bodija, Ibadan explosion of Tuesday, 22 January, 2024. What is the situation as regards the culprits who have been arrested and those who are on the run?
In a situation like this, the chief executive of the state will be regarded as the grand commander of the operations and of course much of the information will flow from the Grand Commander. As per the update from the epicentre, we can say for now that the search and rescue stage moved to recovery stage. At the moment we can now be talking of the rehabilitation stage. While you do that something remains constant and that is the provision of security to the neighbourhood. We can now say that we are in that stage. While security remains constant, we are at the rehabilitation stage or the ‘humanitarian stage’ of things as Governor Seyi Makinde will call it.
You recently said no one had come forward to claim ownership of the structure where the explosion took place…?
I think we have also moved from that. The investigative team which the state had set up is made up of all arms of the security outfits in the country and some experts. They are progressing with their work and I think at the appropriate time, the state will reveal how far they have gone. However, I am aware that the issue of anyone coming up to indicate ownership, with the investigation being conducted – I would think that we have moved past that. Like I stated earlier, there are so many means of getting to know the owner of the property and for now, I think that there are clear pictures as to the real owner, the people living there and the agent that is in charge of the property. So, at the appropriate time, by the time the investigative team put out their preliminary report, I believe that His Excellency Seyi Makinde would be unveiling that. What I can say is that the investigation is coming up well and we have gone a lot of miles with the investigation to show confidence that very soon some of these things would be wrapped up except for those ones that require expert opinion and confirmation like the examination of the material evidence that the explosive ordinance people are looking at, which would be subjected to scientific examination.
Also, pathologists and forensic experts are looking at some of the body parts that were recovered. In the same vein, structural engineers have made a lot of progress. They have more or less concluded their work. The geologists are also working. In a complex investigation like this in which you need to put all these expert opinions together, it will be hasty to say categorically that this is this or that is that. Some people are in custody and by that we mean people that are one way or the other connected with the incident.
There are fears that around that area there could also be some other aliens who are also into mining – legally or illegally.
It is not only in that area, all over Nigeria there are aliens. I want to know whether I’m wrong to say that. I don’t think there is any law that says that people who are not Nigerians cannot live in the country. In carrying out some of those businesses, there are also laws guiding and licensing them and everything. What we are saying is that even if foreigners come in, there are procedures for them to come in, like some of the companies have expatriates – whether they are from the Dominican Republic or wherever, the business has to be legitimate. They should follow the laws guiding whatever business activity they are doing. With the preponderance of information, you will be surprised and be wondering that if this incident hadn’t happened, would some of the information coming out now have come in? Everyone is now coming out to say we know this person from that country and so on. It has become so much that some people are now over-doing it. When they see someone in their neighbourhood and the person happens to be a foreigner or from any other part of West Africa, they just raise the alarm, they don’t even want to know if the person is doing a legitimate business or they are international agency staff. It has got to that. All the pieces of information flying around, including those that have gone viral on the social media, are being looked at wholistically by the team. All the pieces of information that sound like credible intelligence are checked. That is being done by the team and none has been jettisoned because in situations like this, every bit of information that comes in, no matter how minute or big, is not discarded. So, I can assure the people that the security and the intelligence community are looking at all the information as they are flying around.
Nigerians are worried and are asking questions that there are no mining sites in Ibadan and there is no mining site in Bodija specifically, yet these explosives were stored in Bodija. Is the government also worried that if the mining sites are in Oke Ogun, why are the explosives stored in Ibadan?
Everybody is wondering but the question will be for the person that stored the explosives to answer. You know how criminal minds do their thing. When they do these things, it takes the eagle eyes of intelligence and people who help by supplying information, to know. So, we know that we are rich in solid minerals in Oyo State. We are even inviting investors to come in and to an extent too I think Oyo State has quite a number of companies that do the businesses of in that sector. On explosives, dynamites and all those things, the law provides that when you buy these things they should be stored at so and so place. The people doing the business should also have their own personal and suitable magazines to store these things. If the magazines they have are assessed and they are not suitable, they can store at the Nigerian Army Ordinance Depot. I think the Police also have a similar facility. When you store these things there, anytime you want to use them you will notify them that you want to remove the things from their depot and they will follow you to where you are going to use the thing. Of course the provision of the extant rules and regulations is that a record of all these things would be taken. But people that are criminally minded can, knowingly or unknowingly, do things that are not in conformity with the extant rules and regulations. That is why you have some of these things. Some people will even buy and escort the things to a proper magazine and surreptitiously go back there to remove some of them to houses.
It is the same thing with the provision of firearms licenses. Quite a number of people will be guilty of this. Firearms are classified – prohibited firearms and non-prohibited firearms. Nowadays you will see people displaying pump action everywhere. Pump action is prohibited firearm. Licenses are not issued for them to be acquired except you get approval of the president. Yes, it is delegated to the IG but the president must be involved. The licenses that are available are for non-prohibited firearms which, more or less, stop at guns for hunting and double-barreled guns. Licenses are almost not given for guns that fire rapidly – automatic waepons. Nowadays, you see ‘big men’- most of our elites carrying these things and they will tell you ‘oh, I have licence’. I can tell you that 99.5 per cent of the licenses they parade are fake. They must have connived with some unscrupulous elements in uniform who must have interpolated the batch number of a double-barrel to that of pump action. People don’t know these things, they think that they can just possess pump action guns without license let alone pistol that are not supposed to be there. Even under the firearm licence, before you are given the licence even for double-barrel guns, there must be a certification that you have been evaluated to be of stable mind and that you have good eyesight. You must also show the authorities that you have a mini armoury where you can keep that non-prohibited fire arm. We must be open about all these things, everyone must condemn criminal elements.
If you don’t have a license for non-prohibited firearm, say Dane gun or gun for gaming, and for those who are still keeping pump action, it is illegal. How many of them have a mini armoury or a safe or a lock as per the provision of the firearm license? So, it is the person you see today that you know as a criminal. There are so many law violators that are walking around. What are the security people doing? That is another question. Do they have the capacity? Are the security people over-relying on trust to say this ‘big man’ cannot do wrong, because once they fill the forms, they would agree that the ‘big man’ has these requirements. So, when we point fingers, we should also examine ourselves. That is why, in most of the interactions that I’ve had, I keep saying that we must all examine ourselves and have a total rebirth. We must submit to the fact that we have obligations to our society, surroundings and to our neighbours. Majority of us don’t have this obligation and that is why people don’t give information to the police. They say if I give this information out, they will go and disclose it to criminals. Yes, they are right, there has been a long time of having no confidence in whatever government and the security people are doing, especially the police.
The police as an institution has been at the receiving end of this lack of trust, but what are we doing as individual members of the society? Must a policeman tell you to do the right thing? You have an obligation to do the right thing. When we continue to hide under such excuses, our nation cannot develop. If you see any nation that has experienced growth and development, their people are frontal and are able to collaborate and say things out. So, when people say they don’t trust policemen, I wonder why you trust them when you need policemen to carry the bags for your wife at social parties, or when you want to travel and request escorts? But when it comes to having obligations to the community and your surroundings, you don’t trust police because they would expose you and leak the secret. This is lame as far as I’m concerned. We must stop the blame game. We as security and the people must recognise the fact that the nations where the rule of law works it is the people that make it work, not just security agencies.
There are gem stone markets in Ibadan and people are wondering if there are areas of interest to the security agencies in the state with regards to what has happened? Secondly are there contacts made to the two individuals whose names have been ringing a bell in this whole issue?
Interestingly, I never knew there were gemstone markets in Ibadan until a few years ago. It might be because it is not my area of interest or because in my work career, I didn’t serve in Ibadan and Oyo State. However, it is important to point out that the much the people know now on gems and its trade is courtesy of the administration of Governor Seyi Makinde. It is the government of Governor Makinde that came out openly on this thing and also took it up. The governor will always say that the state is not in a fight or conflict with the federal government or its agencies over this issue. It is to the credit of his government that information is coming out exposing some of the things happening in that sector. I don’t know if any previous administration in the state had tackled the issue headlong, but I can say that within the period I had come to stay in Ibadan, and having the exposure that I have with government now, I know that quite a lot of work has been done with regards to illegal mining, starting with that market in Ojoo. You must have heard that the governor personally took that market issue up and I believe that is why, today, we are hearing the Federal Government say they want to establish legal gem stone markets in four locations in Nigeria one of which would be in Ibadan. I believe it is part of the agitation that we cannot continue to have this thing the way it had been.
Secondly, the executive order issued by the Oyo State governor is not in confrontation with whatever the federal laws say. What that order is saying is that the mining community needs protection. What kind of protection? The environment, in terms of crimes and economic protection. That is why, through that executive order, the traditional institutions were also sensitised. As per the law, even before the federal license, they would say go and get consent from the community which some of our elders and traditional rulers have been abusing. Through the executive order, the state government is saying that there are limits to what the traditional rulers can do or cannot do. You might be the Baale or traditional ruler of a town or community but it is not for you to abuse the position that you should give consent on mining. If you do, the state will sanction you. So, in that area, you can see that Oyo State is making progress with regards to curbing the excesses that might come with these activities.
On the suspects people have been naming, I can say with a high sense of responsibility that investigation has progressed. In Nigeria, we are always hasty to get things released but when you do investigation, you must put your bits and pieces together before you can come out to say this is where we are. But I can tell you that key people are in custody. It is a joint investigative team which the governor had put up. They’ve made remarkable progress with their investigation and I’m very sure that it won’t be too long again before you will get to know where they are. They are also tightening things up to ensure diligent prosecution when the time for that comes.
When you look at the incident in its totality, would you say that Oyo State and the government has learnt lessons? What are some of these lessons?
For every incident like this, lessons must be learnt. Even if you had all the structures in place for disaster management, even if you had all the structures in place to curb crimes and criminality, if things don’t happen you won’t know where the gaps are. So, there is no fool-proof policy or structure for disaster management or crime prevention or crime fighting. Even while we have learnt lessons from this, could it be 100 percent? When things happen, you learn to say we didn’t know this was a gap. The world is in constant motion and when you have such a thing, the dynamics of the society would play up. So, things would be evolving. Areas that you thought you had covered today might turn out tomorrow to be that you still have gaps to be covered. Look at the explosive ordinance that I talked about for instance, and the Mining Act, some of them are so outdated. Things have happened that have made those laws obsolete and expose them as being outdated and that we have outgrown some of those provisions. So, lessons will be learnt and we will continue to learn lessons until we die.
There is also the hope that such lessons would lead to deliberate policies and laws to effective management of the state’s security of life and property.
Whether you make deliberate policies or not, there will always be gaps because the people you are making the laws to curtail are also using their heads to think. When you talk of crime, criminality and things that challenge our society, I call them an entity that is in constant motion. When we say an entity is in constant motion, as it’s moving, things would come up and it behoves on the security people to move ahead of it. If the phenomenon is moving at 50km per hour, you should be moving at 70km per hour. When entities are moving, other variants of activities are around the entity and that is why we must always be prepared because there will always be gaps. We must not fool ourselves because we cannot solve all these problems 100 percent. There will always be gaps and we must be prepared for those gaps. That is why, when you put up structures or policies, you will constantly review them, do simulation and test your strategy on a constant basis. Nowhere, no country in the world can claim to have a perfect solution to everything.
Okada riding is a major security issue. How are you streamlining this in Ibadan and the state at large?
Nearly everything is a security issue, so I might be forced to ask: What is not a security issue? Even vehicles which people drive and ride in are security issues. Even people moving on the road are a security concern. A recent report by the UNODC has it that Oyo State (Ibadan in particular) is one of the highest ranking places where young people abuse drugs. That is a security issue. Are you going to say that those young people that go to lounges and clubs or owners of such places should not operate? On Okada, everybody has expressed concern and I can tell you that on a constant basis, Okada issue is one of those things that recur at our security meetings. However, the governor will always say that if there is no demand, there will not be supply. All of us, somehow, have a need for Okada. Our drivers, our cooks, gardeners, our domestic staff and so on can conveniently get to work only through Okada because of where our homes are located. Those who close late from work, in most cases, rely on Okada for their movement since it is not possible to provide utility vehicle for all of them. So, the thinking of Governor Seyi Makinde is that if you stop them just like that, you are probably going to cause another crisis. People use it as a means of livelihood. Those people that you are going to keep out of business, what would you do for them? We saw an example of what could happen sometime ago in Lagos. It was during COVID when hoodlums were breaking people’s cars and threatening them.
So, if we keep on talking about this, we should also be thinking of the solution. Our transportation system – how good is it? Our roads, how good are they to say we are deploying some things? The government is doing something with its Omituntun buses that have been put on the roads. But in as much as everyone is concerned, we should be thinking of what would be the implication and how we would solve it. That is why the state and the governor are saying let us start bit by bit: register them, get their biometrics and if anyone of them does not have his biometrics captured, you will not be allowed to operate commercial motorcycle. This is so that if things happen, we will be able to trace them. Go to Kigali, the capital of Rwanda, there are commercial motorcycles there but there is a way they regulate them. So, you must put the infrastructure in place first. In Nigeria, we don’t want to talk about processes, we just want to jump at solutions. It is when you put those infrastructures in place that you can talk about some things. People talk about drones but there must be infrastructure to support it. It is a gradual process.
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