Aderonke Ige is a lawyer, development advocate and the Associate Director of Corporate Accountability and Public Participation Africa (CAPPA). In this interview with YEJIDE GBENGA-OGUNDARE, she speaks on life as a woman advocate, women working for equality, need for competence and creating a leveler for women among other issues.
How easy is it for a woman to be an advocate in Nigeria?
Nothing in life is easy. But then, speaking as a woman, it’s even harder. I think this is a global phenomenon. But then when you come down to Africa and then you narrow it down to Nigeria, you see that it’s really tough. And I explain what I mean. We are in a very cultural society where gender roles have been defined; what men should do, what women should do, and so on, sometimes terribly so, because these things are not cast in stone. But then it becomes really saddening and painful when an advocate who is fighting for justice or who is resisting or pushing back in general is restricted to men. And when you are a woman in that space, number one, there are certain ways that you are viewed. The society first labels you as stubborn, noncompliant and all manner of names. And then it comes down to even labelling you or tagging you as somebody who is not fit for marriage. it’s sad that people look at human beings and nomenclature and there are certain things that are bestowed upon you because of your gender. Anybody should be able to advocate. And if you find somebody who is passionate enough to advocate, the hindrance should not be because she’s a woman. So the stigma makes it really tough. I would be really honest with you in this terrain that we are, people expect that your role should be limited to looking after children or taking care of a home and so on. And when you do anything outside of this, there are labels that are immediately slammed on you which are usually negative and derogatory.
Will you say women are hindering themselves in the fight for equality?
This is a question I get a lot because there’s an assertion that women are women’s biggest enemies. Things like that are paraded everywhere and women don’t usually support women really. But as much as people like to run around with that narrative and parade it as the truth, I can also explain it is a product of long standing system of socialisation that has oppressed women to a point where they are even raised to be competitors, to hate each other. When you look at how we raise children, we teach boys healthy competition; play ball, they fight and play again. But when we are raising girls, we tell our girls children things like, oh, is that how you are going to behave in your husband’s house? We make our girls compete for things that are silly and unnecessary. If we raise our girls to compete for things that are healthy and we teach them even healthy competition, it will be great. And because women also try to pander to the whims and receive the validation of the oppressive system, they try to be on the side of the oppressor sometimes against other women. And this is not just in gender, even when you look at the system of oppression like racism, you will see that there are members of the oppressed class who also help the oppressor to oppress their fellow victims. So it’s a cycle, it’s a conditioning of the mind. Women are conditioned to see one another as rivals and remember that the space is also limited for them to play in. So it’s very easy for them to witch-hunt one another. So they are also victims of something but I will say it is not justifiable now that we know that we are being set against one another. Because there’s limited space for us. So it’s almost as if I have to set down my sister in order to get to that position or in order for men to validate me and see me. Women should consciously uphold one another, uplift one another, support one another, because really it’s not common, but then it’s a trap and we shouldn’t keep falling into.
Must women support a woman because of gender even when she lacks competence?
I think that’s a very valid question. However, I will say this, first, this is not a gender war. I believe in being qualified to take a role. I believe in expertise. I believe in skills and competency. That’s what I’m looking for. I crave competence. I like people who are up and doing, who are competent at what they do. So that’s the standard. However, when you look at our society, especially our political, social and economic space, we have a lot of below average men being thrown at us every day. If I just look at the presidential, governorship or any other elections, when you look at the pedigree of these men, what they bring to the table, most of them are below average in terms of not even just qualification, even what they can offer. But because it is perceived as a man’s world in an already patriarchal society, they are seen as the only option. We are not fighting men. We are just sensitising people to understand gender justice, this is where we are coming from. So we say that sometimes we love our men when they do just the bare minimum and are not even competent to challenge one another intellectually, we root for them. We let them skip. So when it comes to a woman, they will set higher standards. Why must we set higher standards for women? I believe in equity as much as I believe in gender justice. There should be a level playing field such that there are general standards. If our standard is decency, integrity, intellectual capability, then it should go across board. So if a woman is coming, yes, I ask her those questions and I ask the man as well, in which case then I will be justified if I am picking the other candidate, though he’s a man because at the end of the day, we are not pitching men against women and we’re not trying to push the narrative as long as it’s a woman. I want women that bring things to the table but the standards that we set should cut across board.
Should marriage be a criteria for assessing women especially for elective positions?
What is really sad is the fact that we are still asking this question even at this point in time. It shows you just how backward our argument can be sometimes or how myopic our society can choose to be when they want to be. I think the answer is visible to anybody who has enough sense to see that it shouldn’t matter. We’ve had men who have failed marriages who have been caught in several scandals. Let me give an example, a certain presidential candidate of a country at some point in the very recent past was caught on camera saying certain things like that border on sexual harassment of women. And then guess what? People just glossed over it and said, Oh, it’s locker room talk; we make all kinds of excuses for men, but we don’t extend the same grace to women. So do I want a decent society? Definitely. Do I want people to be morally upright? Yes. But these people must be men and women alike. So if somebody is coming into office, for instance, what has marriage got to do with it? Sometimes they will say, Oh, we need to know that this is somebody who has managed their home. It’s not the same. There are people who have failed at matrimony but have excelled at leadership and management. There are people who are thriving domestically, but they are doing poorly in the social space. It’s just about people understanding the ability, understanding their skills and being able to channel those abilities and experiences into whatever field they have chosen.
Why does the society bring up decent girls to marry boys that are not well trained?
Thank you very much. This is a very another very important question. I will first say that one of the failures is seeing child nurturing or upbringing as a sole responsibility of women, this thing is a partnership. It takes two to make a child.
So when the child comes, there’s something you are going to contribute as a woman and there’s a way the man should show up in a masculine way or in a way that he knows so that we can have a balanced society. What I see is that over the years, we have a crop of girls or ladies who are well brought up, who constantly evolved from the day they were born. They are told to sit properly, close your legs, be decent, don’t go around, don’t follow this. And we set all these rules for them, which are good because we want to have wholesome adults. But the challenge is that we don’t train our boys the same way, our boys do things that are terrible in a minimal way for us because there are children and we say boys will be boys. That’s a very common phrase. Boys will be boys. What does that mean? So you are grooming these girls in the line of decency and morality but not doing the same grooming for the boy. You know what happens eventually? We have raised a population of girls that have now learnt self restraint, self discipline, who are self aware and protect themselves. But guess what? The boys, because they don’t have the same amount of self discipline or restraint and knowledge about delayed gratification, self-discipline and morality abuse the girls. In fact, it might not shock you that when we talk about virginity you are referring to girls. So it’s not both ways. And it’s just sad because at the end of the day, you have girls who are groomed to a point where the boys who are available for them to either be with or marry do not have same orientation and maturity, there’s a huge gap and it’s sad.
How would you assess the fight for equal opportunities for women in Nigeria, especially in line with the 35% affirmative action?
I think we are still a long way from home. And now I will take it back in history. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier. When women do mighty things, those things are usually conveniently forgotten or skipped. I saw a quote recently that says, great women who have done things in history are usually reduced to anonymous. Women have been doing mighty things even before today. Remember how the kind of mobilization and organizing we used to have, not just domestically, political organizing, you know, pushing back against an oppressive regime; look at Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti, Aba resistance of 1929 but in the place of history, we find it very convenient to either minimize their role or just be silent or just erase them Look at our apartheid struggle in South Africa. A lot of women were involved but you hear only Nelson Mandela, you hear you hear the men but where are the names of the women?
We are talking about the 35% of women. I mean, if you will do the calculations, you can tell that we are way, way, way, way below that. That’s why I keep saying that even the way that we do the campaigning or the advocacy, I want men to keep remembering that this is not a fight, it is not antagonism, it’s not a competition. We are just saying that if a society is made up of this population and then you have about half of that population of 50% or more like now I hear women of 51 or 52%. So if you have about 50% or more of your population not participating in a way that matters actively, then you are shortchanging yourself as a society.
What advice would you give women?
Dear women, my advice is very, very simple. It’s just always sad when it is women. We still need to advise at the end of the day because they are usually at the receiving end. And I want to say that look, at the end of the day, please don’t be tempted to be a gatekeeper of this oppressive system. A lot of women fail in that era, they feel it’s okay for me to be able to please. And and they will now be hammering out fellow women; we are comrades, whatever happens to you, I feel you too. Let’s not betray fellow woman because you’re already co- victims of a larger problem, which is an oppressive society and system. So what I will say to women is please take it one day at a time, be a friend to a fellow woman, be somebody who is supportive, be part of somebody’s support system. Don’t be an evil competitor. It’s absolutely unnecessary. And then let’s bring our men more into these conversations so that we don’t feel like, oh, it’s an exclusive club of women and girls. No, we want the conversation to also be wholesome. So let’s keep involving and keeping our men.
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