Senator Femi Okurounmu has participated in and observed Nigeria’s political space for decades with experience spanning both legislative and executive arms of government. The one-time Secretary General of the Afenifere, a Yoruba-socio political organisation and chairman of the Advisory Committee that midwifed the 2014 national dialogue speaks to DARE ADEKANMBI on the task before the incoming president, the template for restructuring the country, why President Muhammadu Buhari should not attempt to conduct the 2023 census, among other issues.
Where do you see Nigeria after the presidential election of Saturday, February 25?
This will depend on the result of the election. Where I see Nigeria depends on how Nigerians vote. If they vote like people who are using their heads, then I see Nigeria heading towards the right direction. But if we don’t use our heads and we vote because of short term lure of some money or some promises, then Nigeria will head further and further into the abyss. God, at that time, will not even help us because we would have created the problem we have for ourselves.
What would you consider some of the greatest challenges for the next president?
The greatest challenge for the next president is to see how Nigerians can begin to feel as one, how Nigerians from the North to the South and the Middle Belt to the Delta and others will begin to relate as one. That will be the greatest challenge. Closely following that is the problem of insecurity, about how we can move about safely within the country and feel the country is so safe for us to move about freely and our children will feel that the country is safe for them to return to or to live in. And the third problem is the challenge of the economy, how the average Nigerian can live a reasonably good life with all the resources that God has given us. The next president will need to mobilise the resources for the benefit of Nigerians. Those are the challenges before the next president.
As an advocate of restructuring for so many years, what template of this concept would you recommend for the next president?
Restructuring has become a word that people who have different intention in mind use and so it has come to mean different things for many people. Many people are now using the concept dishonestly because they know it is something that many people want. To be very simple about it, I leave no doubt in anybody’s mind as to what I really believe we should do in respect of restructuring. We should go back to our Independence federal constitution with the amendment that instead of the three regions we had then, we should amend it to be a nation of 12 states as created by General Yakubu Gowon and Chief Obafemi Awolowo. We can either call it the Independence constitution or the 1963 Constitution when Nigeria became a Republic within the same constitution. The only thing we need to modify is the number of states. We cannot go back to the three states that we had then. In order to accommodate the demands of ethnic minorities, Gowon and Awolowo saw to the creation of 12 states from Nigeria. In fact, it was the creation of the 12 states in order to accommodate everybody that Gowon enjoyed the support of everybody to fight the civil war. So, if we go back to the 12-state Nigeria with the federalism we had at Independence which we carried on to 1966, then that will be my own restructuring.
Returning to the 12-state structure of Nigeria may be difficult with the current 36-state structure. People will oppose the merging or subsuming of their states under bigger states which your suggestion will lead to…
The 36 states structure is one of the greatest tragedies or mistakes that Nigeria made and which we are paying for today. When we realised we made a mistake, we should not hesitate to correct that mistake. The 36 states multiplied the centres of governments unnecessarily and increased the running cost of governance so much so that there is no money to develop the country anymore. All money is spent on salaries. You can imagine how much the 36 governors have cost us. And for each state, we have a bloated executive. Some states have as many as 20 commissioners not to talk of personal assistants and all the paraphernalia of officers running government. So, all the money is devoted to running government. No money to develop the country. This is one of the greatest mistakes Nigeria made and we should retrace our steps and correct the mistake once and for all. We should go back to the 12-state structure of Nigeria.
As part of solution to the political quagmire, South-West governors about two years ago suggested that the six geopolitical zones should be considered as federating units and revenue sharing as the structure addresses the issue of equality between the North and the South since there will be three zones in each region…
Concerning the 12 states I talked about earlier, there were six of them in the South and six in the North. So, there was equity even in the creation of those states and it allowed each of the states to have autonomy the way each of the regions had at Independence. If we return to this, then we will have returned federalism back to Nigeria. All this talk about geopolitical zone thing is just begging the issue. The proper thing is the 12 states created by Gowon, a military government that was at that time unbiased. It was the partnership between Gowon and Awolowo that created those states. So, it was the partnership between the North and the South if you look at it that way. The creation of those 12 states was fair and just with six in the North and six in the South. They also adequately catered for the interest of the minorities in the North and the South. If we go back to this and allow the 12 states to enjoy the same kind of autonomy that the regions enjoyed, we will have no problem. The federation will be a union of those 12 states. The local government councils will now be creations of the states and not the Federal Government. It is the states that will determine the number of local government councils it wants and not the Federal Government which will have nothing to do with the councils. Every state will create the number of local government councils it can fund and revenue sharing will be between the Federal Government and the states. Depending on how buoyant a state is, it will determine the number of local government councils it can fund. It is not right for the current practice of the Federal Government determining the number of councils Kano or Lagos State will have. That is an anomaly.
Apart from your proposal for the shrinking of the number of states, what other recommendations would you give in terms of how the next set of elected officials can reduce the huge cost of governance?
It is by going back to the Independence Constitution with the amendment that there should be 12 states instead of three regions. If we do that alone, we will have reduced the humongous cost of governance. In the First Republic, we had the Western Region which has since been divided into eight states of Edo, Delta and the six South-West states under the current 36-state structure. The eight states we have now were run by only one Premier, Chief Obafemi Awolowo and there were about 12 ministers for the whole of the Region. Imagine how many commissioners are in the eight states now. In fact, Ogun State, which is a small state, has more than 20 commissioners and other states have more. Not only does every ministry of government have a commissioner, it also has a permanent secretary who has so many assistants, the commissioner has so many private assistants and so on. Government has been turned into a lucrative endeavour for politicians to put their supporters in positions where they can be earning salaries. This is what takes away money that should be used to develop the country. The money is used to pay for the salaries of politicians, not to talk of the money politicians steal openly. So, I believe we should go back to our federal constitution which we had at Independence.
Your suggestion will also mean we will be discarding the current presidential system of government and returning to the parliamentary system.
Of course, yes. It means so. The presidential system is another great tragedy or error that we made as a country. The presidential system is the root of corruption. It waters, strengthens it, protects it and multiplies it. The presidential system is not suitable for us and it does not make our government accountable. We need to go back to the parliamentary system. We were once a British colony and we studied our democracy under the British who practise the parliamentary system. A lot of the older democracies and former British colonies still practise the parliamentary system. India is the largest democracy in the world and the largest former British colony. It still practices the parliamentary system of government. Go to Australia, Canada and other places and see what they do there. The Americans invented the presidential system because of their peculiar circumstances. It is not suitable for Nigeria. It is very expensive and for a people who are not highly disciplined, it is very corrupt and allows a lot of room for corruption. So, we will do better to go back to the parliamentary system of government.
Efforts are being made by the outgoing government of President Muhammadu Buhari to conduct a national housing and population census. Do you think this government should go ahead with it or it should leave it for the next president to handle?
Census in Nigeria has become highly political. A census is supposed to be an exercise that will guide us in planning. It should be a useful planning tool. But when census becomes politicised, it is no longer a guide in planning. The way it is now, most people will say the North is more populous than the South. That is what every northerner wants us to believe, whether it is true or not. In order to justify that, every census that is carried out must be conducted by somebody who will confirm that the North is bigger than the South. Our census has since lost credibility. In fact, my own advice is that no government in Nigeria should attempt a census. The next census in Nigeria should be carried out by the United Nations. We should seek the help of the UN to carry out a credible census in Nigeria that will be devoid of politics. Otherwise, any census carried out in Nigeria today will, right from the word go, suffer credibility issue. It will be like working to the answer.
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