Professor Dawud Noibi was the pioneer Executive Secretary of the Muslim Ummah of South West Nigeria (MUSWEN). The 88-year-old retired University of Ibadan teacher, who has presented papers at local and international conferences, speaks with SAHEED SALAWU on some salient national issues.
You were decorated as an Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire by the late Queen of England, Queen Elizabeth II. You must have made quite an impression on the Queen for her to bestow such a great honour on you.
Well, it came as a surprise to me. I never expected it. As the resident Islamic consultant to the Islamic organisation known as IQRA Trust in London, I had much to do with a part of the Home Office, Her Majesty’s prisons service. IQRA Trust was involved in trying to help government meet the needs of Muslim prisoners, especially because in many of the prisons, quite a number of prisoners converted to Islam. It was, therefore, the duty of Muslim organisations such as IQRA Trust to come to the aid of government in meeting the needs of those Muslim prisoners. And as the Islamic consultant, resident consultant for that matter, I was called upon to advise government as to how to meet the needs of these Muslim prisoners in such a way as to bring about peaceful relations between them and those in charge of the prisons.
There was a time a prisoner took government to court over the issue of what he regarded as his right. The Prisons Office rushed to IQRA Trust for advice and, of course, everything landed on my desk. I looked at the issue and advised government as to what could be done at the time to get the matter resolved. That was the beginning of my relationship with the Home Office. And following that, I got invitation every year to visit the prisons college at a place called Rugby in the midland of England. I went there from London every year for eight years to give talks on Islam in general and the needs of Muslim prisoners. That seemed to have gone down well with those on charge of the college and, of course, the Home Office.
I was also involved in the establishment of what we later called the National Council for the Welfare of Muslim Prisoners, and I played my role in the drafting of the constitution of that body. In actual fact, I later became the chair of that body. That, of course, got me closer to the Prison Department and the Home Office. They certainly had been watching me but I know that they also made reference to the fact that I had played some roles in interfaith cooperation not only in Britain but in other parts of the world: in Canada, in the United States, Australia, in India and other parts of Asia. I guess they were trailing me and taking note of my activities. But even in those circumstances, my role in such conferences was to explain what Islam really was, contrary to the very wrong impressions that the people had about Islam. And wallahi, I never came back from any of the conferences without having a sense of satisfaction that I did the best I could to explain the faith of Islam to people.
The point I am trying to make is that I didn’t go out of my way to do anything to please anybody. What I was determined to do was to explain Islam against the background of the various things that had been said in the West about Islam which were wrong. I was told that the award was for my contributions to interfaith cooperation but all my activities were, in fact, meant to preach about Islam.
IQRA Trust, where I was for 13 years, that is, in London, was also involved in taking Islam to schools. We built what we called Islamic Experience Exhibition. I wrote most of the materials. It was very huge. We took the exhibition to different parts of the United Kingdom, Wales, Northern Ireland and what have you. It became very popular with education sector in Britain. That must have contributed to the kind of impression they had when they decided to give me this award.
In most of your recent public talks, you vehemently opposed calls for the secession of the Yoruba from Nigeria? Why was it so important for you to do that?
I have done so and I continue to do so for two important reasons. One, it is not in the interest of anyone in this country to embark on any divisive activity, or even think of getting Nigeria divided. It is in nobody’s interest at all. We do have our challenges, like any other country in the world. I cannot think of many countries that are monolithic in the sense of ethnicity. The moment people want to keep away from others simply because of ethnic differences, you can rest assured that the nation is going to collapse eventually. Our experience in this country with what happened in the mid 60’s should teach us a lesson. And the wise should not fall into the same pit twice. We haven’t gotten out of the woods despite all the efforts made to bring about reparation. Why should we embark on something that might lead to even worse consequences?
It is even worse for anybody in Yorubaland to tend towards doing anything to break up Nigeria and remove Yorubaland from the country. The reason is this: Lagos is squarely in Yorubaland. But we know that Lagos is the commercial nerve centre of Nigeria, jointly built by all Nigerians, the Yoruba as well as the non-Yoruba. I do not think that anyone, in their right senses, would expect that those other ethnic groups in the country that have contributed towards building Lagos to become what it is would allow the Yoruba to take Lagos away from Nigeria and they would just sit down with their arms folded. It is going to bring about fight to the finish. And I don’t think that that is the kind of thing the Yoruba would want to put their hands into. We certainly shouldn’t be surprised if those we think would support us would turn around and join forces with others to fight us. Because they too have a stake in Lagos. It is not helpful at all. That’s one reason, and it applies to all Nigerians, irrespective of religious belief.
Now looking at it from the point of view of Islamic teaching, at the other side of my thinking about this matter, it is wrong for any ethnic group of people to think that they are better than others. Allah warns against this clearly in the Qur’an. In Surah 49, Ayah 11, He says no group of people should think that they are better than others and therefore look down on others. For those whom you look down upon might even be better than you in the sight of Allah. Nor should any group of people call others by aggressive names. And Allah says those who do not repent, having embarked on this kind of thing, are actually evil doers in His sight and will be treated as such. But more importantly for the Muslims of Yorubaland, we should give thought to what Allah says an Ayah before that particular warning, that is, in Surah 49, Ayah 10, where Allah says all believers are brethren of one another, and therefore, should there occur disputes amongst you, believers, the rest of you should quickly make arrangements for peace to reign. Do that as quickly as possible with God-consciousness if truly you look forward to mercy from Almighty Allah. Elsewhere in the Qur’an, for example, in Surah 3, Ayah 105 and Ayah 105, Allah emphasises the need for Muslim unity—unity of believers. He warns against turning your back to your brethren for whatever reason, having realised that this is the instruction from Almighty Allah. And He says whoever does that will suffer painful punishment on the Day of Resurrection.
That is the instruction that has come from our Creator, who not only created us but is sustaining us. And is to Him we shall return at the end of the day to give account of our stewardship. Why then should any Muslim think of abandoning your loyalty to Almighty Allah just in order to please an ethnic warlord who wants you to forget about the Muslim unity?
Some of the reasons advanced for the Yoruba Nation agitation include the alleged relegation of the Yoruba to the background in the scheme of things in the country and what has been described as planned Fulani hegemony in the country, one of the manifestation of which is said to be the incessant killing of farmers by gunmen believed to be Fulani herdsmen. What do you make of this?
My response is very simple. These so-called Fulani hegemony can be viewed from quite a different perspective. From 1999, when the current civilian governments started, up to May next year, insha Allah, we would have had 24 years of civilian rule. Out of this period of 24 years, southerners have ruled for about 14 years. The northerners would have ruled for about 10 years–(Umaru) Yar’Adua and (Muhammadu) Buhari. Incidentally, the two southerners that would have ruled for 14 years are Christians, whereas the two northerners that would have ruled for 10 years are Muslims. So, the southerners have ruled for a longer period of time. And we know that the kind of presidency that we have is a very powerful one. (Olusegun) Obasanjo is a Yoruba man and he ruled for eight out of those 14 years. It is when Buhari would have handed over in May next year, insha Allah, that a northerner would have ruled for equal number of years. In what way can it be said that the Fulani or northerners have made use of political power against the interest of the south or Yorubaland? I am yet to be convinced about that.
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About insecurity, the Fulani herders-and-farmers clash, it is very unfortunate. But it is not happening only in Yorubaland. In fact, the northerners have suffered more from it than we have suffered in Yorubaland. So, it is a national problem which we should, together, try and find solution to. We know, for example, that there are certain crimes that are committed in Yorubaland which are almost peculiar to us. For example, ritual killing, parts of human body being used for rituals. We don’t know that this happens in the north. If it happens anywhere else, maybe Iboland. My argument is that this herders/farmers clash is a national issue and we should find ways and means of resolving it. You do not need a sledgehammer to kill a fly. The Yoruba say ori bibe ko ni oogun ori fifo. We do not have to break the country up because of this particular challenge. With the different ethnic and cultural groups, we have such challenges. We can address these challenges without having to break up the whole country. We can resort to, if you like, looking at the constitution once again and see what can be done, whatever changes that may be considered necessary, to give every zone or, if you like, ethnic group the assurance that no group is going to take undue advantage of others. Let that be something we shall all agree upon through our legislators who are our representatives. All of these things can be done constitutionally without a resort to violence or the breaking up of the country.
What is uppermost in the mind of virtually every Nigerian right now is the coming general election. What do you think Nigerians should do differently this time around to get it right?
Every Nigerian has a stake in this matter. And it is the responsibility of the elders and even the youth to actually tread the path of peace, the path of legitimate participation, and a peaceful one for that matter, to ensure that the elections are free and fair. And we should all accept whatever the result happens to be at the end of the day as the will of God.
It is unfortunate that some of our own people are destroying our own property in terms of INEC infrastructure. You are undoing yourself by doing just that. If everybody ensures that they have their PVC and they make use of it as they ought to, then whatever the result happens to be at the end of the day we all take as the will of the majority. And that is the essence of democracy. We should forget about the past when votes were stolen, when violence was the order of the day, when votes were bought. Each and every one of us must ensure that we abide by the rules laid down in the electoral law in the country. Anyone who feels aggrieved should go to court. I want to believe that our courts are just and they will continue to be just; that they will continue to be the final resort that they are known to be; that would give everyone their entitlements. Every qualified person should ensure that they get their PVC. Do not allow anyone to buy your PVC or your vote. Vote according to your conscience.
I would also like to appeal to parents to ensure that their children, the youth, are not used by troublemakers who would want to get whatever they want by hook or by crook. It is the youth that they can use. As we all know in the common parlance, they don’t use their own children; whenever there is problem, they know how to fly their children out and they too would leave. So, I would want to appeal to the parents, just as one should appeal to the youth not to allow themselves to be used. Let them make use of their votes. I was quite happy to watch some young people rushing to the offices of INEC to pick up their PVCs. Let us try and do it peacefully and appeal to the security agencies to do their job well and without fear or favour. And perhaps more importantly, let our religious leaders be prayerful. When we are conscious of accountability to Almighty Allah, to whom we shall all return to give account of our stewardship, we will restrain ourselves from doing it the wrong way, doing it in a way that Almighty Allah disapproves of. When we are determined to obey Him and do His will, He will bring down His mercy upon us in this country.
MUSWEN, of which you were the pioneer Executive Secretary for 10 years and whose elders’ council you are currently chairing, has thrown its weight behind the presidential candidate of the All Progressives Congress (APC), Senator Bola Tinubu. What is the rationale behind the move?
I am sure that that stance of MUSWEN was well thought through because Bola Tinubu is one of us. MUSWEN is the Muslim Ummah of South West Nigeria, which is the body that brings together all the Muslim individuals and organisations domiciled in the South-West. And he (Tinubu) happens to have emerged as the choice of his party. No other party decided to choose someone from the South-West, or a Muslim that we can say is one of us. There is no reason, therefore, why we should think that we prefer someone else, especially because Bola Tinubu has done it before. We all know that. His style of governance continues to impact on the progress that Lagos State is experiencing even today. So, he has the experience, he has what it takes to govern peacefully and be progressive for the whole nation.
I am sure that MUSWEN’s position is the position that the generality of Muslims in Yorubaland would take, in saying that this is the first time that a Yoruba Muslim, a Muslim from the South-West, was likely to become the president of Nigeria. So, shouldn’t the Muslims be happy about that? I am convinced that MUSWEN leadership has done the right thing by taking that position.
Do you think there will ever come a time when Nigerians will recognise competence and trustworthiness rather than where candidates come from in electing their president?
I think so but we should not be in a hurry. We should try and make the best use of whatever the realities dictate now. You will recall that when Murtala Muhammed was welcomed by all Nigerians, irrespective of whether they were from the north or from the south. And when MKO Abiola won the (1993 presidential) election, he even won against (Bashir) Tofa in his own polling area. The northerners voted massively for him. Isn’t that an indication that when we try and vote the right person, and the right person is guided by God and the rules, gradually we will get over this north-south sentiment?
ASUU only recently called off another prolonged strike. As a retired university teacher and a stakeholder in the university system, how do incessant strikes by lecturers make you feel?
Of course, you can guess how unhappy one could be, having been in the system not just as a one-time member of ASUU but as somebody within the university system. I am not blaming ASUU for going on strike; I am blaming the whole system for not sorting out itself in such a way that we would not need to embark on strike in order to get things sorted out. Both government and ASUU would have their own shares of the blame. I include the government because, according to ASUU, government had gone back on its words on a number of occasions. So, those representing government at the negotiation table must do so honestly. What government cannot do they should not make a promise that government would so it only to turn round later and say we are not in a position to do it. On the other hand, I think we, university teachers, must realise that it is not easy for government alone to fund every aspect of university education. As it is done in other parts of the world, universities themselves can find ways and means of getting funding outside of government by selling their expertise to companies, industries and other funding bodies who would benefit from the results of researches. We should appreciate the fact that we should not expect government to be able to do everything. If we insist on getting university autonomy and government has conceded, then we should also try to make use of that autonomy in such a way as to reduce our dependence on government.
But I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to the government to temper justice with mercy and pay the ASUU members their salaries, even if there is going to be a chance of give-and-take. I think ASUU will see what has happened so far as a lesson for the future. After all, it is our children that are suffering. It is the future of Nigeria that is suffering. Let’s learn a lesson from what has happened so far to avoid a reoccurrence in the future.
